tv Lectures in History CSPAN May 30, 2016 11:40am-12:51pm EDT
identify --" gunning for safety." a special thanks to our cable partners for helping to coordina coordinate. >> marshall university professor cat williams teaches a class about women and life on the home front during world war ii. she describes the war of women in aiding the war factor in aiding military units smeech also talks about the raise of
women's baseball leagues. her class is about an hour and ten minutes. >> all right, you guys ready to talk about world war ii on the home front? last time you guys saw a part of a documentary called "total war." i know some of those images were probably pretty gruesome. one of the reasons i show that to you is to give you a sense of what that concept total war means. i don't care what we were talking about, war is never about two armies fighting one another on a battlefield. it is all-encompassing and i hi that video probably helped to show that. it gives you an opportunity to see and i think the news reels
a -- remember at the beginning of the semester i told you guys my mantra. i don't know if you remember that or not. but it's all about perspective. that he was how i teach, that's how i teach history, that's the -- my mantra when it comes to my own research and scholarship, it's all about perspective. and when i talked to you about that at the beginning of the semester, i used world war ii to illustrate that. the imamgs you saw from the battlefield and from the bombing in europe, that's one perspective. if all you do is see that video, if all you do is hear the stories of the infantry men who
were on the beaches in normandy. if all you do is talk about the impact of war on sailors, you're only getting one perspective and you really don't understand world war ii. you might understand one piece of that military history, but you don't really understand world war ii. apps i said to you before, in order to really understand warp war 2, you have to look at world war ii from all different perspectives. in order to understand it, yes, it's important to look at it through the eyes of that 20-year-old marine on normandy. . but it's also important to look at it through the eyes of japanese americans. through the eyes of women and african-americans. you semimply cannot understand e
total war impact unless you do that. so what we're going to do today is sort of flesh that out a little bit. the greatest effect that war has on the people involved is change. in war time, change only curse, and that seems like a very simple statement, but it doesn't just occur on a global scale or a national scale. it changes us individually. it changes the wale. we see the world. it changes the way we'll are in the world. whether we're talking about world war ii or whether we're talking about van or whether we're talking about the war with iraq, people change as a result of war. and it's not just the people pointing guns at one another.
people change as a result of war. one of the most incredible changes and one they've guerin teach you if you spend any time talking about or studying world war ii, i suspect this is not a change or piece it have that you've talked about but one of the most incredible changes is innoid, individual identity. the changes that happen to us as individuals. world war ii specific clip, aali bleach can you make this argument about any war but we happen to being talking about world war ii, world war ii enabled people to letter about each other, about other cultures, different races, ethnicities, cultures, genders. all of a sudden we'ring to similar things out in the world. we're working in similar jobs. we had a common enemy.
that change was huge. and it was felt long after world war ii. war in general and specific clip world war ii for many women and african-americans particularly was about gaining strength and mobt. from the beginning of this country's history, women and first africans and then afternoon have always been limited in their mobility. war helped to change that. war was very much a door wave through which women ventured out of the homes where they had been and for african-americans, it was a way to overcome the racism, at least temporarily. now i'm not trying to suggest that, ah, thank god there was a
war because now african-americans and women have an opportunity to bust out and gain some ef quality. it was just the effects of war. it was a byproduct of war. keeping in mind this idea of it all about perspective and this independent dethat of -- idea fo truly understand world war ii and to understand the total impact of the war, we have to look at individuals beep could spend the entire semester talking about the impact-in of world war ii on african-americans and certainly another semester talk about women. and we're going to in a cls period or two, we were going to be april dressing the civil rights movement, the modern
civil rights movement and we'll talk more specifically about the connections between world war ii and the modern civil rights movements then. i'll going to spend a little time talking about the impact on african-americans burke there will more on it when we got to the civil rights movement. evens have served valiantly in every single war on conflicted this -- first of all, prior to say 1941, there were fewer than 4,000 african-americans serving in the military. and only 12, 12
african-americans had become officers. bip 1945 mo-- by 1945, more tha african-americans were serving in the military, in the pacif , pacific, -- by 1945. . we all have seen those images of what happened to recruiting stations after pearl harbor, haven't we? after pearl harbor, after the united states was attacked by japan at pearl harbor, every young man, old man, middle age man, just about every man that could possibly do so went to a recruiting office and signed up. you don't get to attack us. young men lied about their ages
and got in. old men lied about their ages and got in. men who were probably physically not in. men who were probably not physically capable lied and got in. and the same was true of african-american men. this was not just white men. it was everyone. including some of those asian-american men who were not taken too kindly. african-american men joined in huge numbers. in huge numbers. unfortunately, however, the segregation that was present in the united states at the time spilled over into military life. african-american soldiers were given in many cases supplies that were maybe not up to snuff. they were given boots that didn't fit. now, not always. obviously i'm being very general to make a point.
sometimes the uniform did not fit and we did not want them in combat. they were expected to do kitchen work, supply, maintenance, transportation. now this was in the beginning of the war at least. many drove supplies during d-day. how many of you have seen the movie "saving private ryan"? i mentioned this to you before but it's a perfect image, that 30 minutes, that first 30 minutes of "saving private ryan," horribly, horribly bloody and, as i understand it, fairly accurate portrayal. there's a scene, a shot at the very end of that 30 minutes and it's a shot that's down the
beach. there's no one talking and there are bodies littered everywhere. off in the distance for just a few seconds you can see hot air balloons. african-american men piloted hot air balloons over the beaches on d-day. i'm not sure which end to hold but i could shoot that down. those are incredibly dangerous jobs, by the way, not really a movie critic here but i will say that appeared to be the only nod to african-americans in steven spielberg's movie. the efforts of african-americans were second to none. the bravery second to none, but those are the kinds of jobs they were given. it was invaluable.
the information they were able to radio back from being at that vantage point very valuable. very, very different. they loaded live ammunition. still, we did not want them in, quote, combat. that started to change, as you can imagine, as the war continued. and we needed more and more men in battle. we started to include african-americans in some of those ba talians. one of the things the army-air force did was recognize we needed more pilots. we needed people to protect fighters. we needed pilots who would fly
supply missions. so a group of african-american pilots that became known as the it tuskegee airmen -- how many of you have seen the tuskegee airmen? a couple of really good movies about the tuskegee airmen. [ inaudible ] i'm sorry? tuskegee, the it tuskegee airmen. they protected bombers over southern italy. they flew more than 15,000 missio missions. 66 it tuskegee airmen died in combat.
certainly the tuskegee airmen were not the only african-american men to serve valiantly during the war, but it's the one most of us have heard of. african-american men it continued to serve in every branch of the military. by the way, every branch of the military was segregated until 1948 when harry truman decided that was not appropriate. they served in segregated military units. they went off to war, they fought and they died for defensem democracy. yep? [ inaudible ] 1948.
they went off to war and they fought and they died for democracy. they fought and died for the united states yet they lived in a segregated world. remember our conversations about jim crowe from the cradle to the grave. they lived in that segregated world. a man named a. phillip randolph, the initial a., phillip randolph. a. phillip randolph was extremely important figure in the black community. and he said to african-american men, fight for freedom. if you fight for freedom, they cannot take away your freedom when you get home. he helped to institute something called the double-v campaign, v
as in victory. it said victory overseas and equality at home. you cannot expect the united states of america to give you your freedom, your equality. earn it. the message was, victory overseas and equality at home. the double-v campaign was put into place to help encourage aftrican-american men and women to do their part during the war. it was a. phillip randolph who convinced fdr that he needed to stop racial discrimination in job programs, in new deal job programs. he also went to fdr and he said, this double-v campaign, understand we're willing to
fight for our country but we expect you to fight for us when we get back. african-american men served tirelessly in the united states military. and african-american women did their part, too, believe me. we're going to talk about the impact of world war ii on women in this country and talk specifically about some images that you've all seen. most of these images are of white women because those are the women that the propagandists wanted us to see. black women were very much a part of the war effort. we'll talk about that in a little bit. for women life changed during
world w world war ii like no other point in american history. prior to world war ii if women worked outside the home, and many did -- it's a misconception to think there was this perfect family of 2.5 children and mom and dad and, you know, that was an image. women often worked outside the home. and when they did, they worked in something called pink collar jobs. what is a pink collar job? what does that mean? any ideas? yeah? >> something that would be suitable for a woman, quote/unquote, for a woman to o do. >> exactly. suitable women's work. now if you had to define that, what would that be? what's an example of a pink collar job? i'm sorry? >> cleaning. >> what else? >> making clothes.
>> seamstress. exactly. what else? [ inaudible ] >> child care. anything else? nurses -- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> waiting tables. >> waiting tables. service industry, acceptable women's work. what do you think is something all those jobs have in common aside from the fact they're service jobs? any ideas? low pay. it was perfectly legal to pay women less money. now may not be the time for me to have a conversation about pay equity today but it was certainly nowhere near equal in the 1940s. women's work, it's not career, it's not a career. it's a job.
one of those things women did before they got mayrried. prior to world war ii, if women are working outside the home, they were working in these pink collar jobs. certainly there were exceptions to that but not as many. after the war began, as you know, many, many women go to work in factories because so many men had gone off to war. we talked last week about the fact that it was fdr's move into war production that ultimately got us -- helped to get us out of the depression. that war production had to continue and especially after the united states had entered the war.
so who is going to do that job? well, some people suggested to the war department, what if we let women into the factories, what if we allow women to do those jobs? and the initial responsibilities was, no, no, no. women are not going to get out of bed in the morning and go do these awful, dirty jobs. well, as you know, that was not the case. women answered the call just like men did and there are a lot of different ways women participated in the efforts in world war ii. one of them factory workers and we'll talk about that first. they were used, images of women were used as propaganda. we'll talk about that as well and i have some images i want to show you. women joined the army -- the
women's army corps and the women's corps. there were a lot of ways women participated in the war effort. the first one, as i said, the one most of us are familiar with and that is they went to work. they went it to work in factories. you've all seen this image, haven't you? this was a propaganda poster. we can do it. propaganda was important in getting women to, quote, do their part. many of you may even have grandparents or greatgrandparents who worked in the factories. anybody have a family member who worked in the local factories? there were a number of those rosies who worked in this area. most of these women who went off to work in the war industry at the beginning, anyway, were
single women, often boyfriends or brothers or fathers or other family members had gone off to war. industry, war industry, the shipping industry, all kinds of war industry reached out, they recruited women from everywhere. they sent out -- you know those posters, those uncle sam wants you, they did those kinds of posters directed at women. we need you to work. go ahead, kaitlyn, and click to the next. women answered the call in huge numbers. think about this for a minute. these women -- and this is this really wonderful photograph of these women leaving -- i don't know what the factory is, but as you can tell they're dressed like workers. these women had an opportunity for the first time in their lives. they left home.
at this time women stayed home with their parents until they got married. and then they moved in, of course, with their husband. there were very few opportunities for women to live on their own. all of a sudden these women are coming from small towns all over the united states into industrial centers around the country and they can go to work dressed like that. there is an incredible accepts of independence these women have they live in an apartment with, say, two or three or four other women. they go to work in coveralls and hard hats and bring lunch pails just like the men did. they sit outside and have lunch at a cigarette, stop at the l k local bar and have a beer. this sounds like no big deal to
us, right? it was a huge deal. it was a sense of independence, but, also, a sense of i'm doing my part. women had an opportunity with this to make their own money, to participate in the war effort. >> were they getting paid the same as men were? >> oh, of course not. in fact, i'm glad you brought that up. the kinds of jobs women did in these factories varied. they could have -- they became welders, electricians, ritors, all kinds of things. jobs that, believe me, were not pink collar jobs, and jobs that they would never have had access to before. but all was not equal. they worked in very dirty and unhealthy conditions. they worked long hours.
and certainly their pay was nowhere near what it was for a man. and here is an example. if a woman had training and one year experience as a welder, she could make $31.21 per week. if a man was trained as a welder and had one year experience, he made $54.65 a week. now, i'm not suggesting that women didn't complain about that, but i suspect they didn't a whole lot. that's just the way it was done. that's just what happened. women, as i said, worked in all kinds of industry -- go ahead and click the next. this is another example of one of those war propaganda posters. victory waits on your fingers.
women were also expected to do some of those jobs that were considered women's work, pink collar jobs, but do it in the war industry. these kinds of posters put pressure on women to do their part. go ahead and do the next one. do the job he left behind. again, there was all kinds of recruitment. these posters were everywhere, in women's magazines, on posters in local small towns. go ahead, kaitlyn. and then there's this. the propaganda against japanese-americans, and this one is frightening but there's one coming up that's even more frightening, one of the things that we needed to do was to convince women, and men for that
matter, we needed to convince them that there's a big, bad enemy out there. if you take a day off -- and, see, that was their biggest fear, that women were just not going to take this seriously and take too many days off. they'd sleep in and they wouldn't be able to handle the rigors of a full-time job. so the images of japanese-americans are very a animalistic. it's very clear what will happen if you don't do your job. go ahead, kaitlyn. in addition to working, make sure you're buying war bonds.
there are posters directed at women that encourage women to do things like grow victory gardens. not all of them were about working in factories. go ahead. and this one is the one i was talking about. one of the most disturbing images of all -- i told you women were often used -- the images were used during wartime as propaganda. this is an example of that. as you can see this japanese soldier, again, does not look human. he is -- he is a monster. and he's after these poor, defenseless women. there are several of these. one has the same sort of japanese soldier and he has this woman thrown over his shoulder as he goes skulking off with her. at the bottom it says, this is what we're fighting for, to
protect the virtue of our women. these images, again, were everywhere. go ahead. this is one -- and you may have seen something similar to this when you saw the total war movie the other day -- this one is actually from britain. and one of the earlier images. now women were strong workers in the war industry. their images were used as propaganda. but women were also very willing to step up and do their part in the military as well, the wac was established in the early 1940.
now, again, the thought was we need more men going off to battle so we need to have some of these jobs that are taken care of by military -- male military personnel, we need some of those to be done by women. let's create a women's army auxiliary corps. this was huge for women. this was enormous. you could join the united states military. you had a uniform. you had a job. you had a purpose. you were part of the war effort. the wac took over jobs like file clerk, operators, cooks. that allowed the men who were in the military to then be trained for combat.
but it wasn't just the wacs, it wasn't just the women's army corps. it was the women's army pilot service. the wasps were like the tuskegee airmen. they had to make a claim that they would be useful. a woman named jackie cochrane who was a pilot and a florida native along with a test pilot named nancy love approached fdr at the beginning of the war and said, you know, there are a lot of women who could fly supply planes, a lot of women who could pull targets, who could transport planes interest one place to a base and, again, as
the same response when the effort was first made to get women into the war industry, no, no, no, we can't do that. we don't want women. we don't want women in those roles. well, it didn't take long before it was clear we needed someone to take over those roles. we needed someone to fly the planes from the factories to the bases. so in september of 1942, the waspss, the women service pilots, were headed to their first training. the initial training, some of it took place in texas. some of it in florida.
these women had a pilot's license, a commercial pilot's license and they learned to fly, quote, the army way. they were not trained in combat maneuvers because they were not allowed to in any way participate in combat. more than 25,000 women applies to be a wasp. fewer than 1,900 were accepted. after the training wasps were stationed in over 120 air bass s across the u.s. they flew 60 million miles of operational flights from aircraft factories to bases. they also towed targets for target practice. now is that a job you want?
they towed the targets for the guys to use their surfais yousur for practice. they flew supply missions. by 1944, they had delivered over 12,000 aircraft of 78 different types. yes. by 1944 they had delivered over 12,000 aircraft, 78 different types. and they were in every area where the united states was located during the war. 38 wasps lost their lives. now listen to this. 38 lost their lives.
and they were all over the world. but when their bodies were sent back home, they were not allowed to be sent home in a flag-draped coffin. you know as well as i do, if you've never been part of a military family -- and i have not been, really -- but if you've never been part of a military family and all you've done is watch the news, you know the significance of a fallen soldier being brought home in a casket covered by the united states flag. they were not allowed to have the u.s. flag. from as early as 1943 efforts were made in congress to get them recognized. [ inaudible ] as early as 1943. people started to get them --
tried to get them the recognition that they deserved. but once the war was over, and, again, they were all over the world, once the war was over, their superiors went to them. they took their wings, they took their uniforms, and they were told to find their own way home. eventually people continued to try to get the recognition. does anybody know when the wasps were finally given the recognition that they were due as world war ii heroes? anybody know when that might have happened? take a guess. no? [ inaudible ] it has happened. >> probably very recently. >> president barack obama in 2009 was the first president, the remaining -- the remaining
members of the wasps, and there were only a handful, were brought on may 10th, 2010, were brought to the capitol and jointly given the congressional gold medal. yes? >> they still don't have the ability to be buried in arlington national cemetery. >> that's correct. they cannot be buried in arlington national cemetery. now, i think it can be dangerous to compare, well, you know -- well, more men died and men had a harder time or these women died and had a harder time. i'm not comparing and we shouldn't compare but what we should do is respect what they were able to do as pilots.
so we've looked at women as propaganda. we've looked at the ways in which women participated in the war effort as factory workers. go ahead and flip through, kaitlyn. there are a another couple of m images. i'm sorry, i got ahead of myself. these are some training photographs and, again, more training photographs. other thing women did, they played baseball. in the all-american girls professional baseball league. now, i guarantee you if you've ever taken a class that talks about the history of world war ii and the importance of individuals or groups, rarely, if ever, have you ever had a conversation about baseball.
how many of you have seen the movie "a league of their own"? oh, yeah. and if you haven't, please don't tell me. in 1943, as i said to you before, men of all ages, of all shapes and sizes headed to war. and that included professional baseball players. we all know, don't we, that baseball is america's pastime. chevrolet, apple pie, mom, baseball. that was the image of baseball in the 1940s and it kind of still is. but as more and more ballplayers, both major league ballplayers and minor league ballplayers were leaving to go to war, a lot of the own eers we concerned. we were coming out of a depression. these were some of the best ballplayers had gone off to war.
some of the owners including philip wrigley -- you may have heard of philip wrigley -- chewing gum, wrigley chewing gum and, of course, if you're a baseball fan, wrigley field. philip wrigley was concerned baseball was going under. in fact, there was even a discussion whether they should play baseball during the war. in a letter written by fdr, he said, no, it's important that we play. it's crucial that we play baseball. that's what these guys are fighting for. they're fighting for the memory of that. and what that means to this country. so philip wrigley together with some other owners came up with the idea what if we start a women's baseball league.
a little context here. women's softball was extremely popular. extremely popular. women's softball brought in more fans than minor league baseball in the midwest. that's softball. so wrigley said what if we take some of these ballparks that are minor league ballparks. they're empty. let's create a professional softball league. women's softball league. it will get some attendance to some of these fields. they'll make a little money. and it will provide
entertainment. now there were a couple of problems with this. first of all, female softball players had a bad image, as a former softball player, i can tell you some of it was probably deserved. but they were too masculine, not feminine enough. so wrigley said, let's go out and recruit some of these softball players, but we have to be careful who we recruit, only a certain kind of people. well, for those of you that have seen the movie "a league of their own," you know those scenes where the scouts go off into the farms and stuff and they're recruiting people in gyms, that's kind of the way it was. they recruited a bunch of
softball players and they brought them to wrigley field. spring training, the first spring training, may 17, 1943. hundreds of women were brought to wrigley field for tryouts. ultimately teams were chosen. many of the women, of course, didn't make the cut. initially there were four teams, racine and kenosha, south bend, indiana. on may 30th, 1943, the first games took place.
wrigley had no clue what to expect. do i sell this as a novelty? go ahead and change the image. this is a group photograph i believe of the rock ford peaches. but wrigley had to decide do i sell this as a novelty? women in dresses playing ball. it didn't take long for him to realize, no, these are ballplayers. these are good ballplayers. go ahead, again. as you can see this is a very popular photograph. these women played ball in dresses, but that didn't stop them. there's one of the former
ballplayers, mabel blair who is 89 years old and she still talks about, yeah, i'm still digging gravel out of my hip from sli sliding this those dresses. that's what it was like to play baseball in your dress. but remember me telling you how women didn't have a lot of opportunities to work outside the home and certainly not a lot of opportunities that challenged the societal norms. these women were given an opportunity to play professional baseball. now the first season it was called the all-american girls softball league. and then bringiwrigley realized were good ballplayers and people came to watch them play ball. the size of the ball changed. and ultimate ly it became the all-american girls professional baseball league.
these women were paid $45 to $85 a week. that was enormous. enormous amount of money. and they got to do it playing baseball. something they would never have dreamed was possible. this is also one of my favorite photographs. these women were very serious ballplayers. i spend a lot of time and they will tell you the single most important thing in their lives is that they had an opportunity to participate in the war effort by saving baseball.
i asked one of the ballplayers, a woman named beans -- they all go which nicknames -- my first reunion of the ballplayers. very tall, friendly, a woman from oklahoma. and she came up to me. somebody told her my name. oh, kit kat. i became kit kat and continued to be kit kat until beans died a few years ago. but when i first had a conversation with beans about what did it mean to you, what did it mean to you that you got to play baseball, and she just shook her head and said, kat, it just means everything. it was my life. it's the best thing i ever did.
and the reason, we helped to make sure baseball stayed alive for those men who came back from war but we did something else. we created a foundation on which the young women of today can sta stand. we helped to bridge from the 1940s and women playing professional baseball to title 9. they understand their significance in the bigger picture of women's athletics. the league lasted 11 years and in that 11 years over 600 women were given an opportunity to play baseball. they traveled around the country. they played baseball in yankee stadium. they had spring training in 1947 in havana, cuba. there were four cubans who played.
over 30 canadians played. they had spring training in mississippi and florida. they had an opportunity, some of those girls, to travel places around this country they had never seen before and would never have had an opportunity to travel. what that opportunity gave them was an opportunity to go to college. they saved some of that money, sent themselves to college, siblings. they became doctors and lawyers. one became the first female manager of any department at northrop airlines. they became principals.
surgeons, politicians, pilots, and they were able to do that because they had access to professional baseball. so when i asked them what did it mean to you to play in the league and they say everything, it's exactly right. what did it mean for this country and the efforts of these women to help during wartime? it meant everything. i've asked a number of these women, so, what was it like to have to play baseball in a dress? of course their answers varied. some i can repeat. some i can't. basically the message is we would have played naked, whatever it took. we got to play baseball and we
truly believe we helped keep baseball alive during the war. as i said, the league ended in 1954. it lasted 11 years. the league expanded over that 11 years from four teams to 12 teams. it's possible that the expansion maybe happened too quickly. i think the fact there was expansion in the league, the fact that the war was over, women were being told to maybe go back to some of those more traditional roles. all of those things including the arrival of television in major league baseball on television helped to bring about
an end to the all-american girls professional baseball league. if we look at the impact of african-americans, women, japanese-americans, any other group you could possibly think of, if we start to pick that apart, to look at their actual role in winning the war and surviving the war in some cases, we start to see a more full picture of what life was like for people involved in the war and those involved even on the periphery. when we started this conversation today, this discussion today, we talked about the fact that total war,
that war was this completely all-consuming thing, that it was not just about two armies shooting at one another. we started to think about that and what that meant and how can we further understand world war ii if we bring all these pieces and parts together. well, we can try and that's my -- that's what i'm trying to do here is to get us to understand, again, my mantra, it's all about perspective. because there's not one of those pieces that's less important or more important. we have to understand them all to have a full view of world war ii. for me, because, of course, i am
a woman's sport historian, for me the role of women in professional baseball during world war ii is an extremely important piece of this story. it's one most of us don't know about. also because those women, those 600 women, believe they made a difference in the war effort and they did. the number of women that i've talked to who worked in factori factories, those rosies, they believe they made a difference. in the war effort, and they did. every single person who went to work in a factory, who grew a
victory garden, every single person who participated in blackouts, gas rationing, food rationing. every single one of those people participated in and helped to win world war ii. go ahead, kaitlyn. this is another picture, though, i wanted you to see. standing on the lawn outside the hall of fame in cooperstown, new york, is a statue and it is a statue that is patterned after this swing. by the way, that just happened in 2006.
this is an example what happened before every single baseball game. women lined up in the "v" for victory sign. and finally "a league of their own." 1992. the movie that finally brought these women's story to the forefront. for every single one of these individuals, for every single one of these groups we've talked about they play a role in world war ii. they played a role in surviving world war ii. and for us to fully understand it, they have to understand all of those perspectives. questions, comments? yes? >> you mentioned there were four cubans and canadians in the
league? there were african-americans, too, right? >> no, there were not. there were no african-american women in the league. it is a bit of a contentious subject. probably one of the best scenes in the movie" a league of their own" is geena davis there in the catcher's gear missed a ball and the ball went past her and two or three african-american women were standing off to the side and she ran and told the woman to throw it to her, instead she threw it past her and into the hands of someone who was standing behind her and realized what an incredible arm that woman had.
if you ask any of the players they will tell you there were no rules about segregation necessarily. black women just didn't try out. segregation from cradle to the grave. no, no black women played in the league. however, there were a number of black women who did play successfully in the negro leagues with the men. tony stone was one. the all-americans did not have any african-american players. >> did other countries have -- did france or britain -- how did they treat their women compared? >> great britain did have -- and i don't remember the name of
their women's pilot corps but they did have one and they had one before the u.s. did. as far as how they treated them after the war was over, i don't have that information. but they did make use of them and, in fact, jackie cochrane spent time there flying with those women and it was, as a result of they are time there and that experience, she was able to come back here and encourage strongly encourage the united states to do the same. >> it was supplies, that kind of thing, not combat related. although, of course, it's all combat related. other questions, comments? does anyone know what a victory garden was? go ahead. >> you don't have to buy as
much. you were doing your part by providing your own. they started in great britain, didn't it? >> yeah. victory gardens were -- exactly. >> rations. >> yeah. it was a time where you can only buy certain foods and we were rationing things. victory gardens were exactly that. women were told, grow a garden. go out into your backyard, grow a garden, help to feed not only your family but maybe another family. there were lots of ways that women participated in the war effort and certainly that was one. and if you were at home, you had kids, maybe you didn't have an opportunity to go off and work in a factory or play professional baseball but there were things you could do and
that was certainly one. >> were children also sent to the factories to work? >> no. by the time -- by the time we get to world war ii we had child labor laws in place. no, children were not -- no, that didn't mean they didn't help in other ways because, of course, they did but, no, they were not expected to work in factories. in fact, that would have been illegal. >> we didn't have nurses in the army -- >> yes. >> they were in combat zones. >> yes. in theory they were not in combat, right? but, of course, we had nurses who were killed during the war. we had nurses who were taken prisoner of war. so, yes, that happened
everywhere but they were not officially in combat. we still have that argument, right? that's obviously changed a lot because women can, in theory anyway, do any of the jobs in the military that men can do, at least i believe that's the case. [ inaudible ] no. other questions, comments? >> the anti-japanese propaganda, the most decorated combat unit we had served in italy. one of the hardest places that we had fights, the japanese-americans. >> yes. yeah, there were any number of stories like that. a number of the male
japanese-americans who were rounded up and sent to camps and places like montana and wyoming had served in the united states military during world war i. these were american citizens in many cases. so, yeah, it was a very dark, i think, difficult time in our history. we understand if you think back about it and certainly we can bring this to the present and think about what we felt like after 9/11. we are fearful certainly when we've been attacked. when we're threatened by a group of people. we rounded up japanese-americans
and put them in what amounted to con scentration camps in the middle of the country. sadly there are folks who want to do similar things today. other questions, comments? for your midterm that is tuesday -- yes? you could write me a nice essay about total war. where you talk about the importance of perspective and understanding all of those important pieces and parts. yes? okay. i'll be counting on that. yes? >> would you agree that total war means that war was more than just fighting, it means, like,
everybody was affected by the war and did their part to help in their own way? >> yes. i think you hit the nail right on the head and you said it much more succinctly than i did. it is exactly that. it is about those battles, of course about the, unfortunately, the killing and the protection of your country or your gee geographic location and the change that happens with individuals. and if we expand our view beyond just that piece of it, then i think we can really get a sense of that. in the same way now most of you were pretty young, but in the same way that, again, i keep using 9/11 because it's the most
current similar experience. those of us who were a little bit older on 9/11, yeah, you know, i didn't go to war. i didn't go to battle. but here's what happened to me. i walked into my classroom on that day and a classroom much like this one and we were all devastated, and we talked about that. we talked about what that meant. and then as the weeks went on, there were fewer and fewer young men in my classroom. and then after about, oh, i don't know, a month, six weeks, i looked out into my classroom and i had two or three young men and that's it. i go back to my office and i have an e-mail from someone here at the university saying, by the
way, a lot of reservists have been called up. so i stood in my classroom and i watched -- i watched these young men leave my classroom. they went to war. they literally went to war. i don't know what happened to them. i have no idea. did i fight in the war? no. will that memory live with me the rest of my life? yes. other questions, comments? okay. all right. then i will see you on thursday. with congress in recess, american history tv programs are airing in prime time on c-span 3. look for our history features each night beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern including a thr
three-day vietnam war summit from the lip done b. johnson presidential library, a retrospective on the conflict. the first major engagement of the war and theidrang. then the soldiers battle after the war with physical and psychological trauma and a conversation with henry kissinger. >> as the administration went on, all of his life it was known as concerned primarily with domestic policy was engulfed in a division of the country that in a way has lasted to this day. >> tuesday authors and historians on how america was divided over the war and then a conversation with film makers ken burns and lynn novak. >> by the time we got four, five decades away where the historical triangulation can actually take place, when you can have the kind of distance